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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:07 pm 
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You said it seems fair for him to call Herring racist, becuase he also calls Carr, Little Britain and Burns racist aswell.

None of those peope (or shit TV shows) are racist.

Better? (not being patronising, i couldnt understand what i wrote either lol)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:47 pm 
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I am saying he doesn't appear to have particularly singled out RH as being worse than anybody else. OK he focused more on him, but at least he gave him a proportionally higher chance to explain himself in the quotes as well. I still think the main point he is making is that we are rapidly approaching (if we have not already past) the point where it is becoming almost impossible for Johnny Public to be sure it's irony or not, and this is further exasipated by how intelligent you either are, or are perceived to be, or how much of a sycophant of a particular artist you happen to be.


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 Post subject: Logan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Dear chortlers,

Below is the formal letter of complaint I sent to the editor in Chief of the Guardian earlier today. Please excuse the vanity of only speaking on behalf of myself and including the award in the argument. But it lends to the argument that in this day and age I would never have been awarded such a prize if i was simply "blacking up" for the sake of it. I wanted to include the entire comedy community's feelings on Mr Logan and his sheer lack of understanding of our art form but was advised by my journalist girlfriend to keep it within the confines of my show for best results. Feel free to post this about. If I'm the first to ban him from productions then others might see fit.

(Spoiler Alert. I give away the twist in"So I suppose" in case anyone hasn't and still plans on seeing the show)

As Richard stated in his blog, despite being as friendly and helpful as I could in the interview I too found Brian pompous arrogant and patronizing. The letter read as such,



I am writing in response to a recent interview I had with Brian Logan on offensiveness in comedy. I gave a lot of my time to Mr Logan, during which I tried to be as friendly and as helpful as I could be.
After reading the article in question and noting the sheer level of paraphrasing and cherry picking he has done I am prompted to write to you. In his attempts to write the article he already had in mind he has painted me as a hateful, ignorant man and he has committed a defamation of my character.
I have already spoken to Richard Herring, who was also interviewed by Mr Logan and is as equally outraged by the level of cherry-picking and quoting out of context Mr Logan has committed to meet his own ends. I imagine you will be hearing from him forthwith. I have also cc'd my agent, Danny Julian, from Off the Kerb Productions who will also be lodging a formal complaint.

On minorities I discussed at length that I would ultimately like to play to more. That I believe everyone should be included in the great British sense of humour and that it’s possible to be inclusive of people’s cultures without being hateful. I stated very clearly and adamantly. "I'd be genuinely mortified if any minority felt bullied by me. I would take it very personally. There's a massive difference between doing jokes for minorities and doing jokes about minorities” As an addendum I added. “But not once has any non-white person ever accused me of being racist (after seeing my Edinburgh award winning show, "So I Suppose This is Offensive Now") so I must be doing something right"

Mr Logan took it upon himself to write

Burns has a point when he argues that to be offended "is selfish, because we all have our own personal goalposts and we all think that everyone else should adhere to them." Still, it doesn't get us very far in establishing an agreed standard of offensiveness – and it does let gratuitously abusive comedians off the hook. Burns proudly says: "Not once has any non-white person accused me of being racist on stage. So I must be doing something right." But this implies that offence is invalid if taken by any party other than the minority in question (as well as overlooking the fact that non-white people make up a small minority of his audience).

This is paraphrasing and downright irresponsible. During the interview I stated again and again (and in fact even rang Mr Logan back days later to stress further) that, for me, comedy is about taking down bullies. Why he would then in turn set out to paint me as a “gratuitously abusive” sub-intellectual bigot (which certainly appears to be his agenda here) that doesn't know or understand his own audience is beyond me.

What's more, I stated again and again that comedians want the double standard of being taken seriously yet when challenged hide behind, "Hey it's only comedy" I for one hold myself fully accountable for everything I say and a great deal of what happens in a gig when I'm in charge. I'm known for it and in fact I've stopped gigs and apologised when I've felt I was out of order in the heat of the moment. That is completely contrary to the notion that I would just let anyone off the hook for being gratuitously abusive. Everything I do is about balance. Something Mr Logan would do well to take heed of. Instead of voicing me with a one-dimensional argument and countering by adopting my own actual stance as his own.



I was handed the highest accolade in my industry for a live show that looked at the lack of balance in matters of bigotry. My cast and I staged a racist argument between an Indian actress, a Miss Sajeela Kershi and myself. (Sorry to spoil it if you planned on seeing it. I believe we were promised a plug for the DVD of the show in question. Something else Mr Logan has failed to add)
The back story for Sajeela’s character being that she turns up to the show with (what we presume to be) her white boyfriend, specifically to be offended by everything I say because she has seen a poster with me mocked up in four offensive images:
1) Me as Christ on the cross
2) Me in a wheelchair,
3) Me in a fairy outfit and,
4) Me in black make up dressed as a Zulu.

An argument ensues during which we discover that the boyfriend is actually her brother. This was a device to raise more questions in the audience’s minds and put people off balance. Things become really heated between all three of us. We both say rather stupid ignorant things and in turn accuse each other of being prejudiced and racist. As the situation (and issue) was so emotionally charged people’s prejudices were brought to the fore as they rallied in support of me or Sajeela depending on their slant. Then we’d reveal that the whole thing was a sting by performing a choreographed dance number culminating in a lighting change so people could see nothing but themselves in the mirrors strategically placed behind us.

It was a complex operation that took a year of preparation. The poster was a huge part of this. The title of the show itself was the little winking giveaway that not all was what it may have, at first, seemed - “So I suppose THIS is offensive Now”
As spoken out of me in cartoon speech blurb, black make up, whilst rolling my eyes.
And yes the “This” was even in a bolder different font.
As I stated so very clearly to Brian, “The reason no-one got upset about the poster is that everyone understood the complexity of the joke. I wasn’t taking the piss out of any given minority. The butt of the joke was people that didn’t think (the images) were offensive”

Yet Mr Logan chose to write,

Brendon Burns, the confrontational Australian comic, agrees that alternative comedy became a fundamentalism that had to be challenged. In 2007 Burns won the If.Comeddie award for his Edinburgh show So I Suppose This Is Offensive Now? painting himself black and dressing up like a Zulu warrior for the poster. Ten years ago, he would not have got away with it, says Burns. "If you said certain words, people would freak out. I can list the big five. Chuck in an n, chuck in a p. Spastic was another one, the c-word was a no-no. Twenty years ago, if you said girlfriend, people would say, 'No, it's partner.'"

To paraphrase a show so complex as just my trying to “Black up” and get away with it is an insult to me, everyone that worked on it and my art in general.
In the show we worked very hard to expose bigotry and hypocrisy. Pretty much everyone but Mr Logan that saw the show managed to figure that for themselves.
But to continue to commit to his own misapprehension even after having such an obvious joke explained to him outright (Some two years later I might add) and to paint me as a flagrant racist in the process? Unacceptable.

If this were in a more lowbrow reactionary publication I would have laughed this off. But to be labeled such in a paper I have loved, read and respected for years and is done likewise the world over. I cannot and will not stand for this.
I expect a full apology in print and I will not be admitting Mr Logan into any further productions.




Yours Sincerely


Brendon Burns


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Another thing I am having difficulty with is this: If you go to a show that is "ironically racist" are you considered a cunt if you laugh at an example racist joke? After all if the idea is to show that you shouldn't be laughing and to make a point - what is the incentive to go to a fucking comedy night and be scared of laughing in case the equally anal twat sat next to you thinks you are laughing for the wrong reason! Most people want to go out and have a drink and a laugh not go to a lecture. It's all getting too bloody complicated!! In fact my auntie Elsie, a quiet, refined 89 year old Yorkshire woman, has stopped going to Jongleurs as she says "Why don't the crack jokes abaht fellers shaggin' camels anymore instead of goin on abaht darkies all the fuckin time?"
Honestly - talk about painting yourself into a corner especially in a bad recession, where 10% of the population thinks modern comedy is hilarious, a further increasing 20% also thinks it is, but for all the wrong reasons, and the other 70% is sat watching "Only Fools" on Sky until something eventually comes along that they can laugh at....
Eeyup just noticed above another celeb is deigning to talk to the bums for once - some of you will be creaming in your britches. :lol:
Who knows Brian Logan may himself have been deliberately ironic just to prove a point that even they can get or take it wrong?


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 Post subject: celeb?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:40 am 
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Celeb? Me??? Really?
Wow! I must alert my family.
HAHAAAAAAAAAAA!
Celeb. Nice one. I shall have my serfs fetch me my slippers as I'm off to bed. I think that's the first time I've laughed at this whole shitty affair. Thanks Roy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:12 am 
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I think there is quite a ground swell for comedians to ban Brian Logan from their shows this year and maybe beyond. It's time that comedy stood up for itself and united behind an issue that has ramifications for everyone.

The article that he has written is in all it's forms very poor - be it the research, editing of interviews etc.

But the biggest issue I have with it is this...

Logan will have put his idea for the article to his commissioning editor way before he wrote it, and the idea that there is a creeping emergence of lazy racism (not casual) is true.
However, in order for the article to be commissioned his editor would require some 'names' to be included to give the articles point some weight and for the Guardian to be able to include rather large photographs of famous-ish (sorry Bren & Rich but you know what I mean!) comedians.
It would never have been written if it was just about a handful of newer acts that were doing 'offensive' comedy so Logan has been forced to crowbar misquoted extracts from interviews into the article in an attempt to justify his viewpoint.

This leads to larger problem in play here in that Logan is attempting to use his role in the media as both judge and jury to have an influence on what stand-ups can and can't perform.
43 years ago Lenny Bruce died largely from the stress brought on by being hounded by the media in a witch hunt over what material they thought his audience should and more importantly, shouldn't see. It's amazing to think that all these years later we have hardly progressed.

So, I put it to every performer at Edinburgh this year - ban Brian Logan and indeed any journalist writing for the Guardian from your shows this year at the festival as a way of a protest if you believe that the media is wrong in it's attempt to control the free speech and ideas that are integral to the ideals of stand-up.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:34 am 
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It does appear Brian has wilfully misrepresented the work he describes in the piece, but I would be surprised if anyone refuses a reviewer from The Guardian entry into their show during the Fringe. Not to say it's not the right thing to do, it is, but it won't happen.

I was appalled reading Logan's article and am happy to hear that some of the acts involved are discussing legal action.

If anyone is actually interested in refusing Logan from their shows, here is his picture.

He looks like a failed pirate.

He also contributes to The Guardian podcast, so perhaps this should be boycotted too. I doubt this will happen (the boycott, not the podcast) but it will be interesting to see what happens.[/b]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:29 am 
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Fuck the Guardian
Let's all read the Daily Mayall in protest
Here's the link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article ... -help.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:12 pm 
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imac hunt wrote:
Fuck the Guardian
Let's all read the Daily Mayall in protest
Here's the link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article ... -help.html


Also, boycott the Observer and read the Mayall on Sundae


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:26 pm 
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'The problem with most live stand-up I see is not that it's too nasty, it's that it's too nice. By which I mean genial, mildly amusing, but with nothing to say and no coherent targets to attack.'

BRIAN LOGAN
THE GUARDIAN
TUESDAY 30TH DECEMBER 2008

What a difference 6 months makes


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Roy wrote:
Eeyup just noticed above another celeb is deigning to talk to the bums for once

What, the 'celeb' that has been a member for four years and made dozens of posts prior to this thread?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:40 pm 
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lionheart wrote:
I just read the piece and, while the writer may have a general point, it's as if he started with a conclusion then found things to fit. And lumping Herring in with Jeffries and Capullo is, frankly, bizarre.


I think you're missing the point some. None of the artists mentioned in the article are bigots. Just because comics like Burns and Jeffries have more confrontational styles doesn't allow some pompous theatre critic to call them racist. I don't find it at all bizarre that Herring was "lumped in" with Jeffries, Burns or Capurro - they're all mighty find stand-ups!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:07 pm 
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superfurryandy wrote:
What, the 'celeb' that has been a member for four years and made dozens of posts prior to this thread?


Apart from this thread - just three since 2004 - it's getting so you can't get a word in edgeways isn't it? :roll:
Mind you he has a successful and busy career and I can understand why he wouldn't want to hang about on here too often.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:24 pm 
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http://gormano.blogspot.com/

:idea:

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http://twitter.com/blackcatcomedy
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Black-Cat ... 7621600933

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:31 am 
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Brian Logan?

He's the type of bloke that gives Brians a bad name!

What a cunt

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