Do open spots see enough established comics? - It costs a lo

sarah jackson · Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 82 Location: London

Pardon me for saying this, but I took a look yesterday at the comedians threads. Not many have been started up about established comics and I notice on Chortle that people spend a lot of time praising up the new comics (fair play - they deserve encouragement and praise where due) but don't talk so much about the guys'n'girls who've slogged their way to the top and can teach newbies so much.

Milton Jones, Boothby Graffoe, Lee Mack, Adam Bloom and Micky Flanagan ..... they have threads but still don't seem to have generated as many opinions as the newer acts. These guys are all amazing on stage. I've had three of them appearing at my new club in past few weeks and they were all tip top. Two weeks ago Ricky Grover (Bulla) and Mike Wilmot were on the same bill and I just didnee wanna go home. It was such a brilliant night ...

Is it just me? Or do I get the feeling that you guys are either too busy gigging, leaving you no time to see established acts, or find the price of clubs where these type of acts appear a bit steep? (I do remember people mentioning that during my short stint on the open spot circuit)

My club is closing for summer after next week's show, but if any comics would like to see some top acts in action free of charge, you're very welcome (just mention that you're a comic who saw this thread on Chortle)

26TH JUNE
Compere Gordon Southern/First Act: Ian Moore
Middle Acts: Ria Lina/Lloydy the illegal street trader
Closer: Addy Borgh

3RD JULY
Compere: Al Pitcher /First Act: Mark Maier
Middle Acts: Rhod Gilbery/Christian Riley
Closer:Jeff Innocent

(Herne Hill Comedy Club - see listings)

Bill Bruce · Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:31 pm Post subject:

When open spots write about open spots that usually because that's all they ever see.

It might just be me, but most newer comics aren't playing clubs that will book Boothby, Milton etc, and have a couple of open spots on the same bill, at the same time.

There doesn't seem to be an intermediate stage. The Store might book you for ten minute open spots, but they are spoilt for choice.

Promoters like to play safe, which is understandable, but new acts can get better when they see how high the bar is set.

More and more clubs seem to be lumping it's new acts all into one 'Open Spot' night, of varying quality. There's no money involved in most of these, and the venues aren't often so great, so why would the likes of Ian Cognito or Lee Mack want to do a show there when they can play better venues to more punters, on better nights.

Eugene Cheese seems to be one exception I've met. The name acts he gets in are quality, and he took me on as an open recently, sight unseen. There's no money in it but it was a great night, and I'm back soon to do some more. It was the first time I'd seen or met Dan Antopolski, but we had a really nice chat afterwards, so it lets both sides of the circuit mix and talk about comedy.

I've also had a similar experience with Ivor Dembina recently, and I think it's interesting that it's these guys - who have been in the game for a long time - that are willing to give continuing slots to acts who are still rough round the edges - on merit.

If there is a willingness on all sides for acts to move up the comedy food chain, aside from competitions or publicity stunts, then newer comics will share stage time with more developed and varied acts.

Consistency should be the yardstick maybe. If an act has four good gigs in every five, then they're probably pretty good. Five and they are clearly very good. If you've played a venue a few times and it's never worked then it's not the place for you. The audience should be the arbitors of taste, but things are more complicated than that.

James2 · Joined: 28 Mar 2002 Posts: 2631

sarah jackson · Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 82 Location: London

Good points guys. Well, as a non-comic (only did 20 spots - hated it - pushed into it so to speak - so gave it a go!) I just found that the open spots got stuck on their circuit (probably for the reasons you've voiced) but ..... don't you think that someone who say gigs 4 nights a week would benefit from gigging 3 (if they can't get on good bills) and then watching established comedians on the 4th night and learning something. ie. pay to go to a name club as a punter.

Meantime, maybe clubs should open their doors free to open spots (which is what I was suggesting at my place) so they can watch top comics for free. We've had such great nights at Herne Hill. All the comics have tended to stay to watch the other acts. Omid Djalili head-lined and had such a laugh on stage he did almost an hour. He is awesome. The newer comics were saying they realised how much they had to learn, but that's no bad thing. Just inspiring I reckon!

Anyway, you're welcome free at my place for next two weeks and if the new season opens.

And travelling is good. Although it costs a lot to stay over places, it's important to play to comedy audiences all over the country. They're all different!

Lloyd Stephens · Joined: 23 Feb 2002 Posts: 1322 Location: South east

Very often 'open spots' newer comics will be on the bill with more established acts. I think newer comics talk about other newer comics because they are just that, new.

Why talk about Milton Jones, we all know he is very good and we all know what he does. Not much to chat about really.

Most comedians I know love comedy and get to as many 'big gigs' and see acts they like as often as money dictates.

I did an open spot at up the creek and boothby was on before me? Bizarre (one of us did well, can you guess who)

At the fringe last year most of use went to late and live a great deal and ross noble, kistson, brenden burns and the usual suspects were watched avidly.
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Karen · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 524

Agree with James. When I started all of my gigs were along established acts at biggish clubs (50-150) My fourth gig was with Noel James..genius.My fifth gig was at Just the Tonic in Nottingham, Ross Noble was compering and spent an hour after the gig giving me advice..invaluable
Not only did I learn a lot but I think it helped me develop quicker to longer sets.
When I went to Edinburgh last year, I made a conscious decision to go and watch loads of the really established acts and not do any gigs. Stage time is important but watching the pro's is essential too.
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Warby · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 505

what a cunningly disguised plug for your gigs Very Happy

My god I've become a cynical chortler :devil:

In Manc promoters tend to let comics in for free, which means we get to see acts if we can be bothered.

Caimh · Joined: 11 May 2001 Posts: 1127

James is 100% right..... and I hate that.

The experience of gigging out of town is invaluable and you get to share bills with some outstanding acts.
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danny james · Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1327

The only reason people get stuck on the open mic circuit, is that they don't pick up the phone and call other promotors.

You'll never get a paid gig if you don't ask for one....

Bill Bruce · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 4:22 pm Post subject:

andrewoneill · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 1367 Location: London

I've definitely found this to be the case. The acts who are excited about comedy and who go to see established acts beat the pants off the acts who only see the other open spots they share a bill with.

I've found my comedy brain numbed by repeated exposure to shite comedy. My quality control for my own material gets skewed and bad puns creep in. Buy haveing seen Bill Bailey and Boothby Graffoe in the last week I'm writing much better stuff.

I think other forms of comedy are important too. Hence my recent Les Dawson Ebay bonanza (his best stuff is stunning).
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Nigel · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 131 Location: London

Very good thread this one. Before I started gigging I was a regular punter at a lot of the 'Saturday Night' London clubs. It was those name acts that inspired me to do this in the first place. Since I started gigging I hardly ever go. After a year I felt I was OK but definitely not getting better. The other Saturday I had a free night so went to Ealing Broadway Comedy Club and saw Al Murray and others. I saw for myself how high the comedy bar was and how much further I had to go - and I'm feeling enthused and inspired again.
So, in conclusion, I agree with everybody - we need to keep seeing the better acts. It's a reality check. Also, it's very pleasant to hear fresh material - let's face it the majority of us London based open-micers know each others sets backwards anyway.

Bill Bruce · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 5:14 pm Post subject:

Geoffrey Taylor · Joined: 13 Mar 2002 Posts: 1427

I have to agree with the out-of-town argument. There are now 2 gigs in Manchester that are new(ish) acts only; the Balloon and the Frog's Raw night. All else will usually have a circuit headliner and at least one other "proper" support act. I think that's a good mix; a couple of places to try things out without pressure, and plenty of opportunities to play alongside established acts. It's quite common for an out-of-town open slot to end up sharing a stage (and maybe a car) with the likes of Alfie Joey, Archie Kelly or Justin Moorhouse.
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sarah jackson · Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 82 Location: London

In answer to all this (point taken about having time for your families Bill) ... I reckon any open spot who cuts out one or two of his own gigs a week and watches pros work will learn more.

Talking to established acts after gigs is good too. I found - during my short stint on the circuit - the those acts to be very supportive and generous with advice. It's the way it should be and newies shouldn't be worried to ask and learn that way.

For ANY type of comedy writer it's very inspiring watching good comics work. It's also very interesting watching the ease with which the established pros waltz through their sets and worry not a jot about any kind of heckle or disturbance. Not something that comes easily to most people early on in their performing career, understandably!

I don't know if my club will get the go ahead for another season (am hoping the finance people will believe it's a goer like I, the comics and my regulars do!) but I started the club on a safe bet with just established gigs. Within a few weeks I felt my audience knew the gig well enough for me to introduce newer acts, so I've replaced a 20 minute slot for two tens. Must admit though, you don't take too many chances in the early days. So for now the agent is only booking pretty well established tens. If we can keep going I'd like to have an open spot eventually too (if possible) ... I think clubs should try to offer a mix of all levels of comedy. Then they appreciate where people come from and get to! A lil bit of variety is the spice of life ...

Karen ... you have the right idea, but then you did very well very quickly. Watching good comedy obviously paid off!