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malee boo
Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1836
Location: Exile
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 Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:43 pm Post subject: racism from the minorities |
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i don't get it, is it meant to be ironic?I had such a hard time even titling the topic, because i don't want to be offensive.
Whats all the deal with a black comic saying, 'oh I saw this chinky, they're so stupid with their slanty eyes , they can't speak properly
This paki fool, they all smell of curry e.t.c
Also I saw an indian comic saying much the same about other races, and this is funny now is it?
Surely thats why sir Bernard of manning is so out of favour, or is it a revival.
I thought we were over that. Are we back to tampon jokes for women and my wife jokes for blokes.
Explain please |
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Okse
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 3451
Location: Leamington Spa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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It is bizzare, it depends how the material is presented, if it's the way you have stated it's grim.
Pryors stuttering China man is brilliant and also Eddy Murphys "I have a big mac and large fries" is very good.
Not offensive at all just funny!
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iszi
Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 2309
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: |
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No different than Bernard Manning - he was acceptable a few decades ago. You can get away with whatever audiences allow you to. Not saying the blame lies with a crowd but ultimately if they are laughing you can't accuse a comic of not doing her/his job.
Wouldn't mind except that it all seems to be the most steriotypical drivel. If you're gonna be racist (or sexist) - at least be original.
I think it is a bit unfair to lie the blame with black/minority comics, us pastey folk do it too - particularly with the sexism. Infact seems a bit of the old white folk superority to say "ONLY WE CAN BE THE TRUE BIGOTTS IN THIS TOWN!"... quite liking the fact I'm unsure of how to spell bigotts.
I love acts like Al Murray but you know that some of the audience are laughing with him instead of at him - which is scary. Then again we 'middle classes' only understand his humour because it is based on a xenophobic message we recognise - it is a very fine line. The joke is that racism is stupid - but you have to have some racist understanding to 'get it' if you know what I mean. Feeding this through a racist figure who becomes admirable, if only for being very funny on stage, does seem slightly dodgy.
The beauty of stand-up is all you need is a voice box - you can be as horrible as you like, on the condition that it is funny.
My message would be to embrace difference but don't be lazy. Write something we haven't heard before. Then see if a crowd laughs.
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James2
Joined: 28 Mar 2002
Posts: 2632
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| Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloody minorities, being racist. |
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Waheetay
Joined: 26 Feb 2002
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| James2 wrote: | | Bloody minorities, being racist. |
You're just jealous 'cos you think we've got longer routines
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James2
Joined: 28 Mar 2002
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| And they're so rhythmic |
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Anthony Miller
Joined: 21 Jun 2001
Posts: 11023
Location: Chavdon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| iszi wrote: | | No different than Bernard Manning - he was acceptable a few decades ago. |
Excuse me for being old .... but No, he wasn't.
About (getting on for) 3 decades ago Bernard Manning was on TV but when he lost his mainstream audience
he re-branded himself as THE racist comic.
However, if you look at his early TV performances which I have seen round a mates house on "UK Gold"
a few years ago there is little or no racist comment there because he hadn't chosen to concentrate on the subject then.
When he fell from his moderate success he cynically re-branded himself as a BNP pin-up.
Anyway, as I've said before the problem with Manning is not so much his jokes
as that he is a big ball of real fucking hate ...who "does a lot for charity"
and thinks money is that start and stop of social status.
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Graeme Casey
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 8310
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Anthony Miller wrote: | | iszi wrote: | | No different than Bernard Manning - he was acceptable a few decades ago. |
Excuse me for being old .... but No, he wasn't.
About (getting on for) 3 decades ago Bernard Manning was on TV but when he lost his mainstream audience
he re-branded himself as THE racist comic.
However, if you look at his early TV performances which I have seen round a mates house on "UK Gold"
a few years ago there is little or no racist comment there because he hadn't chosen to concentrate on the subject then.
When he fell from his moderate success he cynically re-branded himself as a BNP pin-up.
Anyway, as I've said before the problem with Manning is not so much his jokes
as that he is a big ball of real fucking hate ...who "does a lot for charity"
and thinks money is that start and stop of social status. |
If his money is all that allows him to sit around in his pants whilst being on telly, then I want some of that social status.
Imagine being rich enough to sit around shouting 'Fuck off I'm in me pants'.. Wonderfull.
Me personally I have always been of the rule.. 'If it's funny, it's a joke.' Granted there are plenty of off colour subjects and gags associated but i would be hard pushed to meet anyone who has not had a chuckle at a very unP.C. gag at some point in their life. However I am not a fan of P.C. in general. Where will it stop?? No Ginger gags?? If so I am Ginger and therefore have a God given right to take the piss. The daft thing is, is that within 'certain' groups 'certain' language is fine. I've worked as the token white guy in a shop full of Asians (A mix of Indian, Pakistani and Bengali) as well as different faiths (Sihks, Hindu's, Muslims etc etc) and the language used would be so far outside what i could discuss as part of a 'white' group it's silly. Refering to each other as 'Paks' with a couple of choice ones put aside for the white guy. Me. Gags about turbans and other various types of clothing. The store I'm at now is myself, a Nigerian, a Ganian and a Jamaican. The other two the other day was ribbing the Nigerian, talking about why we shouldn't trust them as customers and that they only have money because they rob it, the Jamaican turns to me and asks ' Would you trust a Nigerian??' I said. 'Don't ask me mate. I'm white. I don't trust any of you.'. Technically a racist comment and it got the response it deserved.. A laugh! P.C. is all well and good but we as an audience maybe need to stop worrying so much over something being right or wrong and worry more about it being funny. |
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jug
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 3956
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:52 am Post subject: |
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" However I am not a fan of P.C. in general.",
"P.C. is all well and good but.... "
Pass the sick bag, alice.
"If it's funny, it's a joke."
Funny for who ?
Funny is subjective not universal. Likewise somebody's personality and character is subjective not universal.
Maybe you should be calling Bernard to see if he will give you a spot at his club. |
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Graeme Casey
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 8310
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jug wrote: | " However I am not a fan of P.C. in general.",
"P.C. is all well and good but.... "
Pass the sick bag, alice.
"If it's funny, it's a joke."
Funny for who ?
Funny is subjective not universal. Likewise somebody's personality and character is subjective not universal.
Maybe you should be calling Bernard to see if he will give you a spot at his club. |
Funny for who?? Surely the person laughing.
Good couple of quotes of mine Jug but nothing else??
And what of my comments above give you the impression that I would be welcome at Manning's club?? I'm not sure that my material will be of a ribald enough nature.. However it would be fun to make his audience laugh without having to resort to a bunch of ages old hack racist gags. You never know they might even appreciate the change.
The main point here must be the blkatent double standards between the colour of skin and the material being used. I have heard material by a Female comic that bears a striking resemblance to material by Mr. Manning himself, however the reaction is not the same. With her it is laughter. With him it's laughter (from his main audience) and condemnation from the rest. The gag is still the same, the result is the same. . e.g. It's funny. It would appear that a gag is racist when told by people of certain colour rather than the fact that the gag is in itself racist. I hate this double standard but from the point of view that certain comics can pull lines and get a laugh but then stand in judgement on others who take a similar approach. Basically I hate hypocracy |
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jug
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 3956
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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errrrrrr ther maybe a touch of irony in one and not in the other
compare Alf Garnett's utterances with those Bernard Manning
Merely because some people find something funny it does not mean it is universally nor should it stop those who don't saying so.
I could post some stuff up that was done in Birkenau Concentration Camp that many laughed at.
Should the measure be that because some found it funny it was funny ? |
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Cecilia Smart
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 1887
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I knew this thread would turn into the usual fucking shite. It was a valid point raised initially and then gets turned into 'Its all political correctness gone mad etc etc'
There is no such thing as political correctness. Its just called not being a hateful fuck-knuckle. I dont want to hear 'paki jokes' from white, black, chinese or asian comedians. They are hate filled jokes that have no place in modern society. The humour of hate is a cloak hiding a multitude of prejudice and real harm. There is no excuse for it, ever - and an Asian comic who does jokes about minicab drivers\asylum seekers etc is just getting cheap laughs at the expense of their friends and family, and are as guilty as promoting racism as much as any BNP person.
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Graeme Casey
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 8310
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jug wrote: | | errrrrrr ther maybe a touch of irony in one and not in the other |
Actually my dear Jug. The set up and punchlines are almost carbon copies. Does this mean that when I respond to the gag as told by the female comic I respond only to the irony?? But when told a very similar gag by Mr. Manning my only response is that of a salivating racist??
It's strange the effect a joke can have upon me according to whose doing the telling. As for Miss. Smart, sorry about the P.C. thing I was trying to use it as an example (Albeit clumsily) of how it has changed the way people say things and the things certain people cannot say. Yet does not seem to apply to all. I believe that this is wrong.. If it is distatefull, racist, sexist or anything else that does not fit my personal morals then I believe it to be wrong and do not want to hear it. At the same time though I am not going to say that no-one else should hear it and I am certainly not going to stop someone saying it. It dosen't mean that i have like it.
This seems to fall into the thread about censorship by others (I'm against it). What's wrong with censoring yourself?? If someone wants to do the sort of material described at the front of this thread, then that's their business. The audience will not want to watch them. Other comics will not appreciate them. They will in time change.. unless they can afford their own club in Manchester and sit all day in thier pants. |
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Grouch
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 95
Location: N/A
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Was it a young 2nd gen Indian chap talking about how black men all have illegitimate children? If so, I saw him a couple of months back and thought he was a bit off. He was very new, but very very bad, so he may not be around much longer. |
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retired and relaxed
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Cecilia Smart wrote: | I knew this thread would turn into the usual fucking shite. It was a valid point raised initially and then gets turned into 'Its all political correctness gone mad etc etc'
There is no such thing as political correctness. Its just called not being a hateful fuck-knuckle. I dont want to hear 'paki jokes' from white, black, chinese or asian comedians. They are hate filled jokes that have no place in modern society. The humour of hate is a cloak hiding a multitude of prejudice and real harm. There is no excuse for it, ever - and an Asian comic who does jokes about minicab drivers\asylum seekers etc is just getting cheap laughs at the expense of their friends and family, and are as guilty as promoting racism as much as any BNP person. |
Quality post |
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