The comedy casting couch

[News Bot]

Wend Smith on what women won’t do to get ahead

[junk-male]

There are some odious people who call themselves 'promoters' who are really in it for the ego / power trip and I suspect that a lot of people in the trade know who they are.

Why not 'name and shame' those responsible? - even quote from some of the offensive emails. You would be doing the comedy community a favour!

[hodgson]

Is this another "London open mic circuit thing"? Because I don't know any promoters who'd conduct themselves like that or would send emails like that to an act.
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"Clothes are important.They make you what you are"- Ronnie Kray

[wendsmith]

[James2]

Maybe I'm just being a naive non-London male act but surely, there are plenty of promoters who aren't perverts (or at least hide their perversion behind a veneer of professionalism) - so getting blacklisted by a bunch of sex pests may not be such a bad thing, certainly if it stops them behaving like such venal little fuckwits in future.

So go for it, name and shame - let's start some kind of register for these vile freaks.

[hodgson]

You wouldn't get blacklisted because any reasonable promoter or comic would be appalled that any comic male or female, paid or unpaid would be emailed somethign like that. The reason I said a "London open mic thing" is that often when unsavoury practices like "pay to play" or "bring a buddy" are brought up on here it's invariably going on in London and invariably open spots being exploited
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"Clothes are important.They make you what you are"- Ronnie Kray

[DSBoy]

I think it would at least be good to give an example email/conversation (with name obmitted if needed) so people can see you're not reading more into it than is was intended by the promoter in question.

Also, just to clarify, is it just one promoter who is a problem, or multiple people?

[SoozUK]

Thank you, Wend. In my short time on the comedy circuit I've met, for the most part, polite, genial men who have treated me no differently to any other act. The minority of pigs are very much a minority, but they are pigs nonetheless. I won't be naming any names either, but I've been "chatted up" prior to going on stage by promoters (I'm pretty sure the boss at the building firm I temped for wouldn't have been allowed to say, "you've got a boyfriend have you? Aw, shame for the rest of us, bet he has some fun with you! *wink*") and, most memorably, introduced on stage as follows : "I think it's time we got a pair of tits on this stage". None of it's put me off, I've been singing in greasy pubs and clubs for years, both here and abroad, but I thought comedy would be full of forward thinking peeps, all modern n shit. As in any sector of the entertainment industry, the pigs are the minority. But could they just not exist at all? I think comedy is probably daunting enough for female acts (it's the only area of entertainment where we're outnumbered) without creeps being creepy.
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"quirky style and knockout voice" - Chortle

"Stand-out performances came from...Best-Newcomer Sooz Kempner with her fantastically topical celebrity songs." - ThreeWeeks



Best Newcomer at the 2010 Musical Comedy Awards

[ducksoup]

This isn't an industry wide problem surely? You've just encountered some really sad individuals - that's unfortunate, but hardly a slight of the industry as a whole. If I get on a bus tomorrow and the driver tries to feel me up, I don't conclude that all bus drivers must be perverts.

Why are you afraid of being black-listed by creeps whose clubs you shouldn't be doing on principle anyway. I personally never do any gig where they can't be bothered to reply to a confirmation request - if they tried to sexually asault me I'd be reporting them to the police, not writing a Chortle blog about it.

[wendsmith]

ducksoup - I don't know if it is an industry wide problem. I can only comment on what I have experienced. I have never once stated that all promoters are perverts. In actual fact I wrote in the last paragraph that I know many lovely promoters - I would count some amongst my friends. I also didn't state once that I had been sexually abused. I'm not quite sure how you inferred that. The point of the correspondence was not to name and shame, but to raise awareness about a problem that I have experienced - many male comics have said to me - since this morning alone when the article was published - that they did not realise it happened. Likewise, many female comics have apprached me on both Twitter and Facebook - as well as SoozUK on this thread - that they have experiences of this too. For this and this alone I have fufilled the purpose I indended for the article. Now, I quite agree with you about the principle of gigging for people like this, and I can assure you I wont. I do not want to get a reputation as a bitter old harridan who isn't willing to work - its not that at all; and that's one of the reasons I will not name and shame. The other reason is that it is that some of things I have had said to me are filthy, degrading and shameful to me. I don't particularly want to be associated with that sort of language, and it is extremely embarrassing.

SoozUK - thank you very mcuh for sharing your experiences. I quite agree - the pigs are the minority. Unfortunately, there are still pigs out there. Comedy is so difficult to get into, especially for women and I don't think that it is fair for there to be this extra obstacle.

DSBoy - it is a few promoters. One in particular has contacted me on several occasions, but others have spoken to me inappropriately too.

hodgson - I see you what you mean. Thank you for clarifying. No, its nothing like that at all - I have never (thankfully) had to gig in a place like that.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us." - Marianne Williamson

[comedy bastard]

Sorry but this doesn't wash.

You bring it up, then don't name and shame?

So the only person who knows who he is, is the person who sent the emails?

Wow.

This either didn't happen, or reading too much into things.

If you can't name and shame there is a reason, and it isn't you're scared of being black listed. If that was the case you would not have done the article.

I had sleezy comments made to me, by a promoter. Who then proceeded to touch me in a sexual maner <ok squeezed my bottom three times in an evening saying sexual things at the same time>. I'm a man (barely) the promoter was female. I was polite and tried to keep away from her. And after that night never did any of her shows again. I have no emails for proof. But I'm happy to name and shame this 'promoter'.

My question to you is this, did that make me think lots of female promoters are horrid? No I just thought/think the one in point was.

I think you have this all wrong.

[wendsmith]

I don't quite understand how people seem to be missing the last paragraph. It is not all promoters. I never once suggested it was. In fact I have also written that it was only a few in a couple of replies in this thread.

Being blacklisted is only one of the reasons I refuse to name and shame. Maybe that is a completely unjustified fear, and I can see the point when people bring this up. I do not want to repeat some of the things that have been said to me - the language is disgusting, and the comments are degrading. Why should I regale you with comments that have caused me embarrassment and shame? Nor do I have to justify myself to you. By saying that "This either didn't happen, or reading too much into things" is diminuishing the problem that I - and other women - have experienced.
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us." - Marianne Williamson

[ducksoup]

You seem to be trying to suggest that - because of sexually inapporpriate language/behaviour - the comedy curcuit is made more difficult for female performers. Is that a fair assessment?

As - the wonderfully named - Comedy bastard points out this is behaviour that can be engaged in by any gender. Your experience, though regretable, isn't necessarily reflective of anyone else's.

Are you willing to conceive of a female promoter sexually asaulting Comedy Bastard? And can you also understand that you may be alone in your experience.

Certainly, people with no moral scruple may abuse a position of power; yes, there may well be more male promoters than female (I don't know that there are - but it's a possiblity) thus increasing the likelihood of you encountering some males who are 'bad eggs'. After all, it takes no special qualification to put on a comedy night - believe me, some of the promoters I've encountered couldn't organise a feel-up in a brothel; the point being that anyone can be a promoter - lots of talentless people are doubtless attracted to the industry because they feel 'part of something' - or, 'someone' as the case may be.

I agree with Comedy Bastard - this sounds like a case of crying wolf if you refuse to name name the wolf - after all, you claim to have electronic evidence.

Publish and be damned!

[Sam Gore]

Just read this article and commented to my (female comic) housemate that I thought it was a brave thing to do, not because of the blacklisting point but because of some of the "you're making it up" ire the author's already attracting.

Some of you need to calm down and read it again. She's never inferred that all promoters are perverts.

I know far too many female comics who avoid the odd promoter for the exact reasons given in the article. It's unfortunate, but the experiences of women in comedy are totally different to what I or any other bloke might have to put up with. I've heard stories and even seen things posted directly on to Chortle that have been more than a little horrific and no girl getting into comedy should have to put up with it.

Weirdly enough it's generally the newer acts who seem to comment on it more often. Which implies these few pervy cowards don't have the nerve to push their luck with someone with enough experience to make them regret their attitude.

Personally, I thought the article was well-reasoned and needed to be said, and congratulate you for it.

[wendsmith]

I am merely suggesting that comedy is hard enough for anyone to get into without the odious comments of the minority putting people off. That is a fair assessment. I am more than willing to accept that it happened to comedy bastard - why would anyone make something like that up? If you do then you undermime the real experiences of people. To make up something like that is poisonous.

To be quite honest with you, I do not particularly care if you think I am 'crying wolf'. I know it happened, other comics know it happened and it has happened to other people. I am entitled to voice my opinion on something that really happened to me, and to others, without the repercussions that I seem to be experiencing. It is my choice not to name and shame, or to publish the emails and I would ask that people respect this; instead of bear baiting. This is the last time I will say that I will not do this, and I think my reasons are perfectly justified. I did not write the article for that reason
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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us." - Marianne Williamson